Buckles Blog: No. 18- RBBB in Chicago 1943

Sunday, February 10, 2008

No. 18- RBBB in Chicago 1943

P02794, originally uploaded by bucklesw1.

8/29/43 "Ringling Circus wild animals and midgets".

81 comments:

Anonymous said...: It occurs to me that in the cage are one of those rare golden tigers that we have not seen as of late. Every tiger act I have lately hyas been white btigers. I guess by this time they woulde be a dime a dozen in value. I suppose that with the great number of them in the Cuneo compound that their are more white ones in inventory in our country than those of their original natural color. As for me the whites were a novelty at the time, but those golden beauties on the Baumann mirror balls in the spotlights were awesome. It seems thyat Mr. Cuneo killed the goose that layed the golden egg. I would assume that the "goldens" are more of an endagered specie than those common "white" ones. I guess I stirred up enough crap and will leave it at that.; 10 February, 2008 16:39
Anonymous said...: Col.
Whinny, nicker, whinny. Easy with the spur's and crop. A slight squeeze, and a gentle tap will do, thank you.
I hope you are well,
Wade Burck

P.S. What do you think about that Sgt. deal? Discuss it with the Joint Chief's and see what they say.; 10 February, 2008 17:16
Anonymous said...: I sure agree with John! No crap about it. Give me the shiny gold with black strips and only a white underbelly!
Dick Flint
Baltimore; 10 February, 2008 17:29
Anonymous said...: Another vote for "normal" colored tigers. The early white tigers were interesting, and a good excuse to discuss genetics, but the novelty's over. Even the Dinky Town Zoo seems to have a white tiger (don't get out your atlas).

When our daughter Kristin was about 18 months old she found she could make people laugh when she crossed her eyes. As long as she was going to do it we made it into a trick. Around animal people we'd ask her to do the "white tiger". She'd cross her eyes and stick out her tongue. (Kris is now a mother probably hoping baby Sophie does exhibit the same talent.); 10 February, 2008 18:59
Anonymous said...: Have you gentlemen sat on the jury at Monte Carlo?They only liked them once over their.; 10 February, 2008 19:32
Anonymous said...: Jim A,
I question your expertise!!!!
What are your credentials!!!!!!!!!!
Have you ever even been around animals!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You almost sounded like Marlin Perkin's for a minute!!!!!!!

Your friend,
Wade Burck; 10 February, 2008 21:26
Anonymous said...: I remember when I was a kid, I guess it would have been the early '60's National Zoo used the white tigers as their big marketing gimmick, much as the pandas became the pitch a decade later. Once the Chinese Government began their lease-a-panda programs the fad faded a bit -- and the novelty of white tigers played out too once they became seemingly ubiquitous. I remember visiting Ernie Wagner when he was reptile curator at Woodland Park thirty years ago and going by his house and seeing his first "albino corn sankes" bred for the collector/pet market. Initially I thought, well that's kind of cool." But then it occurred to me that breeding abberants was a bit like breeding poodles, nature didn't enter into it much. Impressive though the white cats look in performance when you first see them, they aren't what William Blake had in mind in his nightmares.

Tiger, tiger, burning bright
In the forests of the night,
What immortal hand or eye
Dare frame thy fearful symmetry?; 10 February, 2008 21:29
Anonymous said...: To all concerned,

Lest anybody mistakenly think I am "steamed", let me slip into my "cute and charming" gown and say, "I don't care what anybody think's, I love them anyway."

Wade Burck; 10 February, 2008 21:31
Anonymous said...: Ben brought up albino snakes. I'm sure he, and many others, remember the big deal about the white alligators a few years ago. Another animal that can be seen in several collections now. Again, an attractive animal likely couldn't survive in nature but got more people interested in animals -- good thing. Buckles or Richard Reynolds might even comment on the white, and not so white, elephants in the early 20th century.

To give Wade his due: The early white tiger acts had a number of cats with vison challenges (I'm trying to be politically correct). Working a cat that can't really see where it's going, hence kind of touchy, takes talent. (I'm stopping the compliment so as not to upset J.C.Hall.); 11 February, 2008 07:35
Anonymous said...: Jim A,
Compliment accepted.(Has he never not been upset.) You being a learned zoologist/animal trainer will then understand the neccessity of breeding "optically superior" specium's. It eliminated the excuses for many, until the females started coming in to heat every 2 day's. Add that to the inbreeding myth, and some can talk themselves into a handful.
Wade Burck; 11 February, 2008 09:18
Anonymous said...: Jim A
At first I thought you were Jim Z of sideshow fame. But I guess you are in the zoo field. In the circus world I have heard people described as "cute and charming", as Mr. Burck and Mr. Cainine have stated. And I have found it greatly increases their talent and skills. On the other hand somebody being upset will diminish talent and skills greatly. Just read Erica Zerbinis
picture. If only she washed her truck once a week she might become a more well liked horse trainer. Jaime R.; 11 February, 2008 10:22
Anonymous said...: amem to that, William Voss; 11 February, 2008 12:40
Anonymous said...: I hate to disagree but this photo shows male and female lions. This is corner statue wagon # 77. The tigers (2 in number) were in cage # 70 in ’43 which was always used for the tiger display in the menagerie. And they were normal colored Bengals. There is a splendid photo of open tiger cage #70 in ’43 published in WT, N-D 1980, p. 13.

There were no white tigers, golden tabbies or whatever on RBBB in 1943. Those were unheard of back then, at least in America.

The first white tiger shown anywhere outside India was the female that Ted Reed brought back to National Zoo in December 1960 from Rewa, India in the Indian state of Madhya Pradesh. She was named Mohini or Enchantress and was a gift of the Maharajah of Rewa.

It seems that the Rewa area was the only place in India where a recessive gene produced white tigers. The Maharaja bred them at his palace at Govingdahr. He had captured a wild male white tiger a decade before and was producing white cubs by selective breeding. Mohini’s arrival in Washington was a huge newsmaker. Mohini was even taken to the White House lawn to be received by President Eisenhower. There is a fine article about all this in the National Geographic for May 1961.

Subsequently, Mohini was bred at National Zoo and produced a white tiger cub and more were sent out of India, e.g. Bristol Zoo, UK.

There seem to have been some Rewa white genes present in other tigers as well for they suddenly started turning up in cubs born to tigers owned by others. In the summer of 1977 a certain Baron Julius von Uhl had three white cubs born to his normal colored tigers while he was at Kingdom’s 3 (formerly Lion Country Safari) at Stockbridge, GA just off I-75 south of Atlanta.

White tigers are now quite common.; 11 February, 2008 13:33
Anonymous said...: clyde beatty donated a while tiger to the national zoo somewhere around 1960-61. could this be the same tiger?; 11 February, 2008 14:38
Anonymous said...: richard reynolds,
Thank you. I didn't want to point it out to the Col. I just thought he was "stirring up the crap. lol
I believe the Baron has one born before 1977 if I am not mistaken.
Wade Burck; 11 February, 2008 16:48
Anonymous said...: Baron Julius Von Uhl had a male white tiger born in 1972 at the Circus Winter Quarters of Cole Bros. in Peru, Indiana, in 1972 named Tony. He was sold to the Hawthorn Circus in 1975 and became part of a troop which Wade Burck had at Marineland and Game Farm in Niagara Falls, Canada. The parents were two half Siberian tigers which were brother and sister named Raja and Sheba. They had another litter of two white cubs (one female and one male) born in 1976 at the Baltimore County Fair, along with one orange male. All three were sold to the Ringling Bros. Circus. A white tiger cub was also born in the Hawthorn Circus in 1972 from a mother who was a sibling of Baron Julius Von Uhl's tigers named Raja and Sheba (Tony's parents) and the father was probably her uncle, who was pure-Siberian. Another unrelated strain of white tigers appeared in the Nandanakan Zoo in Orissa, India. Can you tell me anything more about the three white cubs born in 1977 in Stockbridge? Do you have an exact date of birth? Were there any orange cubs in the litter?; 19 March, 2008 10:40
Anonymous said...: Anonymous,
I am having a hard time following. Who are "they had another litter of white cubs born at the Baltimore Fair in 1976, that were sold to Ringling Bros"?
Might I also ask, who are you and what is your interest in the subject?
Wade Burck; 19 March, 2008 11:41
Anonymous said...: Addendum to Anonymous,
In trying to undertand fully what you are asking, What litter are you talking about born in Stockbridge in 1977, and what proof do you have the the tigers in the Orissa Zoo were unrelated to Mohan?
Wade Burck

P.S. Don't ask John Herriott, he'll just bitch about them. LOL; 19 March, 2008 11:47
Anonymous said...: Anonoymous (Jaime R)...Jim A. could never be me!!...He's much too Honest for that!...Besides, He trains Aquatic Critters...I'm on my way to bein a "World Class" Horseman!!!.....Jim Zajicek (Fellow Horseman) P.S. Nothings "Cute and Charming" in Circus...Its All BIGGER & GRANDER!!!; 19 March, 2008 18:58
Anonymous said...: White anything was just a "Hook"......I remember when "Hoo-laa hoop acts were a "Hook"..Lets bring out a NEW "Hook"...Perhaps Gold in tigers....and Side passes in Horses....Imagine that...So old...Its NEW!!....Jim Zajicek (innovator); 19 March, 2008 19:08
Anonymous said...: In 1974 the Cincinnati Zoo was holding some of the tigers for the National Zoo while the NZP was building a new big cat facility. I think the NZP female (normal with the recessive white gene) was bred to a Cin. male and the result was a litter of three white and one normal (simular odds to winning the lottery). The mother and three white cubs eventually returned to Washington but the normal colored with white genes stayed in Cincinnati. Tony, Hawthorn's white male was sent to Cin. to breed with the female with the white gene. Their progeny was the start of the white tiger explosion and very lucrative for Cuneo and the Zoo.

Usually the zoos would have a big educational display on the genetics of white tigers featuring Mohini. I never saw one that mentioned Baron Von Uhl or Tony.; 19 March, 2008 20:07
Bob Cline said...: I'll just throw a curve ball here but it's at least newsworthy for just a moment. I had the opportunity to visit a Public Zoo backstage so to speak ( I'll not name the Zoo here because I don't know what the outcome was )around 1990. I'm not 100% certain of the year, it might have been a year before.

Long story short, they had recieved a pride of White lions from the Timbavate area of Africa. They had all been examined and tested by the Veterinarian team and they discovered they were all HIV Positive. They could not display them for fear of contaminating a display area that other animals are on and didn't have another area so they were kept inside at the time. I don't think it was public knowledge that the lions were at the Zoo but I might be wrong. The Zoo had raised a ton of money to transport them to America so they were in a real dilemma.

As I said I don't know what happened after that. I just thought their findings were quite an eyeopener.
Bob; 19 March, 2008 22:02
Anonymous said...: I was asking Richard Reynolds about the litter of three white cubs which he said were born at Stockbridge, Georgia in the Summer of 1977 from Baron Julius Von Uhl's pair of tigers. My name is Paul McCarthy. I just find this subject interesting. There have been a couple of articles written about the white tigers which were born at the Nandankanan Zoo in Orissa in I think 1980. There were three white cubs born from orange parents. A.K. Roychoudhury, who was with the Bose Institute in Calcutta traced the ancestry of these tigers back to their wild caught ancestors and determined that they were not descended from Mohan. These white tigers are refered to as the Orissa strain. Mohan's descendants are the Rewa strain. The two bloodlines have been mixed together of course. A.K. Roychoudhury wrote about the Orissa strain in Tigers Of The World. He also authored the Indian White Tiger Studbook in 1987.; 20 March, 2008 10:29
Anonymous said...: By "they" I was refering to Tony's parents Raja and Sheba. They had a litter of three cubs born at the Baltimore County Fair in 1976 which were sold to Ringling Bros. I think Ringling Bros. happened to be in Washigton DC at the time. The cubs were born on the same day that the litter of cubs that Tony fathered at the Cincinnati Zoo were born. I think it was June 27, 1976. The mother of the cubs Tony fathered in Cincinnati was Kesari, an orange daughter of Mohini from the National Zoo. They bred Tony to Kesari because he did'nt breed with a white daughter of Mohini named Rewati. In 1968 the Crandon Park Zoo in Miami had a white tigress obtained from the Maharaja of Rewa. She was a half sister of Mohini. Around 1980 a white tiger cub was born at the Racine Zoo in Wisconsin from the mating of two tigers which were father and daughter. The father killed the white cub. Tony's orange littermate named Chequila was then brought in and bred to the mother of the white cub at the Racine Zoo and they had more white cubs.; 20 March, 2008 10:51
Anonymous said...: There was a litter of three white and one orange cub born at the Cincinnati Zoo in 1974. The mother was Kesari and the father was her orange brother Ramana. In 1976 Kesari had a litter of four white and one orange cub. Tony was the father.; 20 March, 2008 11:22
Anonymous said...: Mr. Mcartney,
I have to admit, I am having a real time following what you are saying or asking. Do you or have you seen actual documentation of the births in Georgia, and the births at the Baltimore County Fair that were sold to Ringling Bros.

Jim Alexander, I would suggest that it was a lot more lucrative for Cincinnati then it was for Hawthorn. It was many years before any went out of here as a sale or part of a Hawthorn act. Marcan was the first "independent", if that is the correct word, to use a white male from Hawthorn in his act, I believe in 1981.
Regards,
Wade Burck

P.S. Ignore what Henry Edgar say's about Clyde Beatty having a white tiger. If you listen to him, Clyde walked on the moon, long before Neil Armstrong. LOL; 20 March, 2008 14:17
Anonymous said...: Wade Burck I can't understand why you are having any trouble understanding what I'm asking or saying. The only information I have concerning the three white tiger cubs born in Stockbridge, Georgia in 1977 is from Richard Reynolds message on this blog posted on Feb. 11, 2008. My questions were addressed to him. I do have documentation regarding the three tiger cubs born at the Baltimore County Fair in 1976 which were sold to Ringling Bros. Circus. Henry Edgar is correct about Clyde Beatty buying a white tiger from the Maharaja of Rewa in 1960. He payed $10,000 for a white tiger which was a sibling of Mohini. T.H. Reed, the director of the National Zoo helped Clyde Beatty negotiate the deal, but India imposed an export ban on white tigers and Clyde Beatty's money was refunded. Tony's grand mother was a Bengal tiger named Susie who was once owned by Clyde Beatty. I first learned that there was a second strain of white tigers in circuses, which were part Siberian, when I was watching a Canadian game show called Beyond reason I think in 1977. It was like What's My Line?, but the panelists were psychics and the guest was a tiger trainer who I think was Wade Burck. His white tigers were a mixture of the two strains. I saw the white tigress in the Crandon Park Zoo in 1968 which was born in the palace of the Maharaja of Rewa and was Mohini's half sister. Her name was Princess. I saw white tigers in the Bristol Zoo in 1976 which were the only ones in Europe. Baron Julius Von Uhl sold Tony's parents Raja and Sheba and their orange daughter Obie to the Omaha Zoo in 1978 and they all had more white cubs. Obie, Tony's orange sister who was born in 1975, was paired with a white tiger from the National Zoo named Ranjit who was born in Cincinnati in 1974. His parents were Ramana and Kesari. In 1986 there was an article in Sports Illustrated about Wade Burck and white tigers. In the 1980s the Cincinnati Zoo imported two white tigresses from the Nandankanan Zoo, but they were never bred. Around 11 years ago I met a tiger trainer in Montreal named Alan Gold, who had just returned from Germany. He had a large number of white tigers (which I know belonged to the Hawthorn Circus.) He was very kind and generous with his time answering my questions and letting me see the tigers up close. That very same day one of his friends was killed by an elephant in Hawaii.; 22 March, 2008 10:34
Anonymous said...: Mr. MaCartney,
Maybe here is where I am "confused"? Henry Edgar says, "Clyde Beatty donated a white tiger to the National Zoo". You now state that the deal was nixed, and Beattys money refunded? That is not a "donation", by any stretch of the imagination, it's just a "supposed plan" that went south. You mention a SPORTS ILLUSTRATED story. If you are basing any fact's on interview's, I suggest you ask my friend Henry Edgar about a writers fondness of "embellishment". Nothing wrong with that, it's their job, if it is not an expose interview.
Yes that was me on the show in Canada with Victor Borge. What two strains are you talking about?
When I was contracted to Hawthorn in 1976, they had 3 white tigers. Bagaherra born the year prior, and Frosty who was a few months old from gold siblings of the Barons, who were the parents of Tony, all of whom were born at the Sioux Falls, South Dakota Zoo, and Tony who was purchased from the Baron. Two months later we took delivery of 2 white males, Ika and Ari, from the mating you mention between Tony and Kesari. Story relayed to me was that Hawthorn was doing a date in Mexico and was concerned for the health of Tony,(this was before the "unexpected birth" of Bagherra and Frosty) so arrangements were made for Cinncinati to house him, and attempt a breeding, any offspring to be divided equally. Hawthorn got 2 white males, Ika and Ari, who were "divided equally", giving them a total of 4 males and I female, Bagherra who was never bred, and Cincinnati got a white female and a white male, and the National Zoo got the normal offspring. All of Hawthorns white tigers were produced from those white males, and gold females, until well into the late 80's when there were now white females to breed with.
I questioned the Stockbridge story because it had come up a second time when you mentioned it, and I am still waiting for a response and documentation. What documentation do you have about the Baltimore Fair births that Ringling bought?
The tigers you mention seeing in Montreal, with Allen Gold were the remnants of the White tigers you saw on the Beyond show in Canada in 1977, and the one's that were mentioned in the SPORTS ILLUSTRATED article, with the exception of 2 White and 3 gold that I delivered to the act in 1989 when it was in Germany, and later presented by Susan Lacey. The last tiger of the original act, Conan died in 2001. And the last of the original added ones you saw in Montreal, Wei died in 2004.
You would be amazed at the number of "different blood lines" that have sprung up over the year's. Back in the day when it was a honor just to have one, it was different. As they became more common, and "unique individuals" were breeding them, a "different bloodline", became a new way to hang personal paper.
If that hasn't confused you enough, here a story along the same vein with a leopard. I mentioned that Jim Clubb had a great 8 year old black leopard, years ago that leapt across the arena into his arms. I was informed by an individual, in no uncertain terms that, "my husband and I sold him that leopard when it was a baby!!!!" As if that mattered for anything. Just like the "different bloodlines" you may run into.
Regards,
Wade Burck; 22 March, 2008 12:16
Anonymous said...: Wade Burck-I thought you said that there were two unrelated strains of white tigers in North America on Beyond Reason in 1977. There were articles in The New York Times, The Washington Post, and The Baltimore Sun on June 28, 1976 which reported the births of two white tiger cubs at the Baltimore County Fair. None of them mentioned the four white tigers born on the same day at the Cincinnati Zoo, which included Bhim, Sumita, Ika, Arie, and the orange female named Kamala. A.K. Roychoudhury is a population geneticist who has written a great deal on the subject of white tigers. He said that the three cubs born in 1976 from Raja and Sheba went to Ringling Bros. in the chapter on white tigers he wrote for Tigers Of The World. Robert Baudy was breeding white tigers which were claimed to be pure Siberian at Center Hill in Florida. I don't think it's very likely that Tony, Bagheera, and Frosty were descended from Mohan. I saw two white tigers which Alan Gold had named Yin and Yang. They were born at the Columbus Zoo and their father was Ika. Alan Gold told me that Arie had gone insane and he left him at a private zoo in Germany. When I saw you on Beyond Reason I did'nt know that anyone in the Western Hemisphere owned white tigers other than the National Zoo.; 25 March, 2008 10:20
Anonymous said...: Here is a picture of Baron Julius Von Uhl with his elephant Miss Twiggy. http://www.miamicountylife.com/articles/2007/07/23/local_news/local89.txt; 25 March, 2008 10:29
Anonymous said...: Mr. McCartney,
There were "two unrelated strains" of white tigers in 1976. I was referring to the the Mohan line, and the Baron/Cuneo line which is where the Siberian blood came from. I have spent my life, explaining to the uninformed that they aren't white because they are from Siberia and it is cold there. The normal colored Siberian dilution came from the animals mentioned as coming from the Sioux Falls, SD. siblings, of which Baron bought some unknowingly, and Cuneo did the same unknowingly. I spent many hours with Dr. Roychoudhury, on the phone and through personal correspondence. Even a scientic journal/manuscript includes "wives tale", in the complete telling of the tale, like the Baltimore births, and similar statements in any complete scientific book.
I am sorry you brought up the tiger Ari(that is how I spelled it the day we got him, on the paper's, and we should try to keep it that way to stop confusion). He worked well for 13 years before he went "insane". And that "insaneness" was well documented by video, back stage at the German circus the act was contracted to. The owner has the tape. Should I see if she will send you a copy? We will let it go at that, my friend, rather then hanging qualification paper. The other two tigers mentioned Ying, not yin, and Yang had a brother, Wey, sired by 3 legged Ika, whom Hawtorn donated to Columbus, which I trained and delivered over to Germany, as mentoned, to replace a number of tigers that had gone "insane". I use that word "insane", because it is new to me and I have never heard it in reference to tigers in 33 years. Tony severely mauled 2 people. What would that qualify him as? Ridiculous!!! Wey was white the others were normal colored. Some of the worst "physical specimens" of white tigers came for the Ika/Dolly cross, and I tried to discourage further breeding after the first litter, but their Director was well on his way to "tv fame" and needed the "paper" Columbus's white tiger breeding program provided. It was left to me to train, handicaps not with standing, all individuals sent to Hawthorn as our litter split part of the breeding arrangements. Do you suppose the story in the Baltimore and Washington papers could have been leaked by the National zoo, given their close proximity, in reference to the Cinncinati births, on the same day, of which the National zoo had some interest, and got misquoted?
At no point have I ever said, or insinuated that Tony, Bagherra, and Frosty were related to Mohan.
Mohan is one line, and the Sioux Falls siblings are two. Get it. The SHEBA you mention was from there, as was her sister SHEBA that Hawthorn had. How's that for confusing? But that is the reason such close record's have been keep
in the breeding of Egyptian Arabians. Close to 200 year's worth of carefully passed down from generation to generation documentation. That way you don't have to reference somebody who has been around Egyptian Arabians for only a few years. No disrespect.

Example: if I was working an elephant that Buckles Woodcock had trained, my talents would be great enhanced just because I was presenting a Woodcock trained elephant. Again, no disrespect intended, just a fact Mr. Macartney. Did you meet a tiger named Sultana who did a hind leg leap? She was from the Colombus cross. Two people that I know of told me they trained her, until I produced the video of me training her in Illinois. Her roached back and chapel hips, which her brother Gold had, are why she leapt. Try as I might, I could not get her to walk "normal."
That's neither here nor there, Sultana made a couple of people famous, and God rest her soul for that.
Wade Burck; 25 March, 2008 13:27
Anonymous said...: Hello Mr. Wade Burck,
My name is Mary Ann Howell, and I am another admirer of white tigers. I have found your comments most interesting and informative. Unfortunately, I have never had the pleasure of watching you perform with them, but in March 1997 some Hawthorn tigers came to Detroit with the Shrine Circus, along with their trainer Othmar Vohringer. I still have the program which he autographed. Do you know the name of the big tiger that he used in the finale? Othmar sat on his back and held up a hoop, through which other tigers leaped. It was amazing. I very much admire these beautiful animals, and all of you who work with them.
Sincerely,
Mary Ann; 25 March, 2008 16:38
Anonymous said...: Wade Burck - There's a photograph of Baron Julius Von Uhl holding one of the white cubs which appeared in the newspaper article in The Baltimore Sun. Richard Reynolds told me that there was a front page article in the Atlanta Constitution Journal on Sunday June 19, 1977 regarding the births of two white tiger cubs in Stockbridge. One only lived a short while. The other was named Scarlet O'Hara. She died at the Atlanta Zoo on Jan. 30, 1978 of cardiac arrest while undergoing surgery to correct crossed eyes. She was still owned by Julius Von Uhl when she died. Regards Paul McCarthy; 26 March, 2008 12:19
Anonymous said...: Wade Burck-I appreciate the offer of the video, but no thank you. Regards Paul McCarthy PS On another occasion in Montreal in Winter, I forget what year, I had the priviledge of meeting a Dutch man who worked for the Hawthorn Circus. He was also very generous with his time answering my questions about tigers and elephants. I really enjoyed speaking with him. I've seen his name in print in The Tribe Of The Tiger.; 26 March, 2008 12:34
Anonymous said...: Mr. Mcarthy,
That would have probably been William Voss. But I am not familiar with the Tribe of the Tiger. When this discussion was started, I assumed we were discussing white tigers that had survived and contributed to the gene pool. That's why I was questioning the other births. They were never listed in the "official record".
Wade Burck; 26 March, 2008 13:18
klsdad said...: Hello WGB...

Which lineage of tigers did Siegfried and Roy's magnificent animals decend from?

And lions.. if you know.

Many thanks.

klsdad; 26 March, 2008 15:35
Anonymous said...: KLSdad,
Their tigers were from the Cincinnati Zoo, and were decended from Tony, as are the vast majority of white tigers living today. The white lions I never was much interested in, as I never saw a "natural" true white one. Just my preference as I never cared for a stripless white tiger, or tabbys.
Wade Burck; 26 March, 2008 17:50
Anonymous said...: Wade Burck-I already knew about the 13 or 14 tiger cubs born at the Sioux Falls Zoo in I forget how many litters, between 1966 and 1969, which included Raja, Sheba II, Sheba III, Prince, and Saber. John Cuneo told me that Sheba III lived to be 26. I have a picture on my wall of Champak and Chameli, the pair of white tigers which the Maharaja of Rewa sold to the Bristol Zoo in 1963. John Cuneo offered to trade some white tigers with Bristol Zoo, but they declined. You probably knew about that. As far as I know I never came across a white tiger named Sultana. I did'nt know there were two strains of white tigers in North America until I heard it from you on Beyond Reason. That came as a revelation to me. I did'nt know that anyone in North America had any white tigers other than the National Zoo before at the time. I had never heard of Baron Julius Von Uhl and I did'nt know the Cincinnati Zoo had white tigers by 1974. Regards Paul McCarthy; 27 March, 2008 10:18
Anonymous said...: Paul,
Sultana was a gold tiger, as was her brother Gold, who were siblings to Ying and Yang, that you mentioned, and Wei whom I mentioned as one of the last of the original act. I referenced them in regard's to the cross of Ika/Dolly from Columbus, and their physical handicaps.
I don't know any thing about a trade with Bristol. It would not have made sense as that line was represented with the mating of Tony and Kesari, which produced Ika and Ari(whom I named after 2 lions that Roy Wells had, for accurate history). To this day Mr. Cuneo claims a pure bred siberian named Ural was the father of Frosty and Bagheera, "because Ural was crossed eyes!!!" They were born shortly before I came to work for Mr. Cuneo, and Prince and Saber were castrated 3 months after the birth of Frosty. When research in the late 70's reveled the siblings from Sioux Falls were also siblings to Prince, Saber, and Sheba, as well as the Baron's pair, Ural became the "patch" for the castration of Prince and Saber. Sheba and Ural were bred 2 more times and produced only gold offspring before Ural died. I suggest 26 years is also a stretch for Sheba.
FYI. The White Tiger Maharajas nephew, who inherited the title Maharaja of Rewa was a dear friend of mine until his death. His nickname was "Jackie." Wonderful fun loving personality, and I am sure he won't mind me telling this one tale. We were attending a tiger symposium in 1984 and he wanted me to take him to an American disco club. After the 10th cocktail, Jackie decides he will show me how a tiger marks his territory. He stand's up, pulls his long white hair back, throw's his robe over his shoulder, and takes a leak, right there under the strobe lights. We were already under scrutiny, him with his long hair, beads, flowing robes "stalking" nymphets around the dance floor. As we are being escorted out the door, Jackie is loudly proclaiming his Royal statis and immunity. I told him, "that doesn't count here partner, let's just see if there is a pancake house open and get some breakfast and coffee. We have important meetings to attend in 4 hours. LOL
Wonderful fun guy who had nothing to do with his life but be a Maharaja.
Wade Burck; 27 March, 2008 12:13
Anonymous said...: Wade Burck- That is an amazing story. The Maharaja of Rewa who bred the white tigers abdicated so that he could run for Parliament so he must have been still living when his nephew inherited the title. There was an article a while back in The Times of India which said that the erstwhile scion of the royal family of Rewa, who was an MP, was asking students to sign a petition to ask the President of India to send white tigers back to Govindgarh Palace as a tourist attraction. I don't think anything came of it, but I wonder if your friend also abdicated so that he could run for Parliament and he was the MP in the story. Another Maharaja, who was a cousin of the Maharaja of Rewa, was a minister in the Indian government, I think for wildlife or the environment, and he went to Las Vegas and saw Siegfried and Roy's show. Afterwards he suggested to Siegfried and Roy that they acquire white tigers from the Cincinnati Zoo for their act. Do you remember a white tiger cub named Lilly, who was cross eyed? She was Taj's daughter born at the Columbus Zoo and Jack Hanna had her on the David Letterman Show I think in 1986. In fact I think it was on this occasion that my roommate at the time upon seeing the white tiger cub on TV told me that there was an article about white tigers in what was then the current issue of Sports Illustrated, which I would'nt have known about otherwise. I have'nt been able to find Lilly on any genealogical chart for white tigers. I assumed her father was Ika, but maybe it could have been Isson. I don't remember whether Isson and Taj ever bred. Taj was the grand daughter of Ika's brother Bhim. Her other grand father was Ranjit, the National Zoo's white tiger. You probably knew that. I think Lilly was also on Good Morning America. Regards Paul; 28 March, 2008 11:29
Anonymous said...: Wade Burck-The article is titled "MP students want white tiger back in its homeland" Hindustan Times Friday March 28, 2008. It's on the internet. Regards Paul PS There are three male white lions at the Toledo Zoo which belong to Siegfried and Roy. The Cincinnati Zoo has white lions, which were born in Germany, and belong to Siegfried and Roy. The Philadelphia Zoo also has white lions.; 28 March, 2008 11:55
Anonymous said...: Wade Burck-Thank you for the picture of Ari. Regards Paul; 28 March, 2008 12:38
Anonymous said...: Paul,
Jackies title was merely ornamental as was the gentlemans who visted Siefried and Roy. But it makes for great press. Like the Dukes of English royalty who inherit a title, and a crumbling castle, and turn to "safari parks" as a means of generating revenue, one of Jackies greatest concerns was finding the financial backing to keep his palace from collapsing, by selling off surrounding land and doing "public appearances." We were pals because we weren't too impressed with each other.
Do I remember a cross eyed white tiger? Jesus, back in the day that was 90% of them. Nothing to do with "imbreeding", as the uninformed state. Just an undesirable gene, that comes with the undesirable white gene. Nature but a lot of things in there, to assure it's non survival. An NO I WILL STATE LOUDLY, they are no different behavior wise from a normal colored tiger. Those are alibis for bad training. Yes, the cross eyed ones had to be trained different given their obvious disadvantage. You used their more accuate hearing to your advantage in the training process. Because Hawthorn trained white tigers, and did not "just" use them for exhibit purposes, it was imperative that the crossed eyes were bred "out". Careful "line breeding" not "inbreeding", with gold carriers eliminated all but 2%
of the crossed eyes out of the Hawthorns white tigers. More important than a large quantity, was a physically correct specimen, more conducive for training.
Often times an animal has a "paper name" and a "barn name", which may have been the case with Jack Hannas tiger. Her father was probably Ika and not Isson. Hawthorns Isson worked in the Hawthorn act for 5 years, until he also "went insane" after the act left for Europe.
I have a wonderful piece of Rewa history that Charly Baumann gave to me, and I treasure. I will see if I can down load it, and if Buckles is kind enough to publish it, you may find it interesting.
Regards,
Wade Burck; 28 March, 2008 12:53
Anonymous said...: Hi Wade!

Mary Ann Howell again. Thank you for posting the picture of Kabul and the other tigers, and for the information about them. The act was really spectacular. I enjoyed the picture of Ari also.

Sincerely,
Mary Ann; 28 March, 2008 13:59
Bob Cline said...: Wade & Paul,
I have enjoyed the commentary tremendously. I knew about several of these animals, their where abouts, etc. I did not know that there was written records of linage. I could understand the Hawthorn Corporation keeping their records or Josip keeping his but I didn't realize they were kept so far ranging. I have never met Mr. McCarthy so I would just like to ask how you came about to be so knowledgeable, were you around the Zoo or Circus business? Wade and I have known each other for a good while now. I have always been impressed by his ability to train the quality of acts that he had with what he was working with. I have been to the Cuneo barn and spent some very educational time with John Cox at the time and visited with Roy Wells then also. I don't consider myself a dummy when it comes to tigers but I will admit, I found your conversations very educational. Thanks.
Bob; 28 March, 2008 15:26
Anonymous said...: Bob,
The white lions at the Philadelphia Zoo. Were they the ones you referenced in another poste? If that is correct, don't answer. LOL
You had better bet that the major zoos with white tigers and myself personally kept accurate records in the early day's. It became "muddy" when the white tigers were more common and more people were breeding them. If you want some fun, you and Paul need to focus on the Sioux Falls siblings. Backtrack, and you will discover when the Siberian blood was introduced. You will also learn that there are not in reality 2 separate bloodlines!!!!! But in fact 2 separate species lines, one pure tracing to Mohan, and one mixed also tracing to Mohan, tracing all the way through the snow whites to the tabbys of today. Don't forget the Heck's from Germany were able to recreate a Tarpan from extinction?
Bob, have you ever noted that some Tabby males have the remnants of a mane, similar to what you see on a male tigilon or liger? I lost interest when it became almost like breeding different colored guppies, in an effort to be the only ones with something, instead of breeding a standard. You can't imagine some of the dwarfy, pin headed, chapel hipped, crosseyed, kink tailed, small footed, long backed individuals out there being passed of as the majestic white tiger.
The breeding of most species of animals take no real skill. It is as simple as putting a male with a female. The skill comes in being able to "set" a particular type after many years of selection and record keeping. Like cattle breeders and Bedouin horse breeders have done for decades. In breeding "color" you will sometimes have to compromise conformation, but as soon as color becomes the most important factor the the species is lost in its original form. Sadly the fate of the White tiger.
Wade Burck; 28 March, 2008 16:23
Anonymous said...: Addendum to Bob,
You misunderstand about the quality of the animal. That was never an issue after about 1980. There are enough excuses/patchs, ranging from female heat cycles every 48 hours to, this is how they do it in the wild. The difficulty was training them by a "script", instead of ability, both physically and mentally. The words "insane" and "psycho" are as unfair to a white tiger, as the words "European" and "American" are to Trainers; 28 March, 2008 16:57
Anonymous said...: Wade Burck & Bob Cline-I was mistaken about the white tiger cub I saw on TV in 1986. Mary Ann told me that must have been Taj. A couple of years later I saw Jack Hanna with another white tiger cub on TV which he called Lilly. She was also on Good Morning America with a lady from the Columbus Zoo. Mary Ann said that Taj only had one white female offspring named Yang which Wade Burck mentioned previously. I had already figured out that crossed eyes are directly linked to the white gene, not a separate result of inbreeding. There were articles about white tigers having crossed eyes in Science and Scientific American in 1973 which you may have seen. White tigers have a visual pathway abnormality like Siamese cats and albinos which are also prone to crossed eyes or strabismus. The authors were studying the brain of a white tiger named Moni who died at the National Zoo in 1971 of a neurological disorder. His eyes were in normal alignment, but he still had the visual pathway abnormality like a Siamese cat. The issue of Science had Mohini's white daughter Rewati on the cover. She was the first cross eyed white tiger on record as far as I'm aware, and the only pure-Bengal white tiger I know of which was cross eyed. None of the white tigers bred by the Maharaja of rewa was cross eyed as far as I know. Ike killed Rewati at the Columbus Zoo. They were both cross eyed. Rewati was also on the cover of the April 1970 National Geographic. Was Bagheera deaf? Are white tigers hard of hearing? What does it mean when you say a tiger is insane? I was told that Ari probably should have been destroyed, but would likely be bred instead, when he was left at the private zoo of Helmut Schuster in Ansbach, Germany. I have always been interested in animals. My interest in white tigers began when as a child I saw the one at the Crandon Park Zoo in Miami in 1968. Big game hunter Ralph S. Scott bought her from the Maharaja of Rewa for $35,000. He saw the white tigers at Govindgarh Palace years earlier while hunting tigers in India and he pursuaded German-American billionaire John W. Kluge to buy a white tiger as a gift for the children of America in 1960. That was Mohini. Because of India's export ban on white tigers they had a lot of difficulty getting Mohini out of India. Finally Eisenhower appealed directly to Nehru and she was released. John W. Kluge presented Mohini to Eisenhower in a ceremony on the White House Lawn in 1960. Later on the Maharaja of Rewa threatened to release all of his white tigers into the forest so the government of India gave him special dispensation to sell two more pairs abroad to offset his expenses. One pair went to the Bristol Zoo. One white tiger which Ralph S. Scott bought for Miami Zoo died at a railway station in India. Regards Paul; 29 March, 2008 10:39
Anonymous said...: Wade Burck-PS I know exactly when the Siberian blood was introduced at Sioux Falls Zoo. Regards Paul; 29 March, 2008 10:56
Anonymous said...: Wade-Thanks for those pictures. I'm pretty sure that Billy Arjan Singh is also royalty. I knew a man in Montreal named Gerald Iles. He was the director of the Manchester Zoo in England for 25 years prior to 1960. He was also the founder of the Montreal Zoological Society. He said that he had a letter from the Maharaja of Rewa. I asked him for a photocopy of it, but he said he was'nt sure where it was. The letter he recieved was offering Mohan for sale before there was any captive breeding of white tigers. The Maharaja also placed ads in the New York Times and The London Times offering the only white tiger in captivity for sale in 1951. He wanted the money to buy a speed boat. I think the asking price was $28,000. Regards Paul; 29 March, 2008 11:18
Anonymous said...: Paul,
I have found, in the early day's most white tigers had a degree of hearing impairment. To what degree has never been tested in my world. I can't speak to the zoo world. My own "unscientific" testing pointed to a tonal loss. I learned early one to use the "direction" of my voice or sound and not depend on the eyesight of the crosseyed ones. Cross your eyes, and try to look at a point or an object such as a pedestal or a place on the ground. Add to that the stress of trying to find that spot surrounded by snarling hissing animals. Add to that swinging spotlights, and you get an idea. Calling them, while moving to the spot using sound direction was the only way it worked. They had a difficult time finding a spot once you had moved away from it. That's why the effort was made to "breed it out", which we did, and not breed for quantity, as stated earlier. Many did not understand that, and attempted to use a "stronger force". Like an Arabian horse, which takes a calmer/easy style of training as opposed to other breed's some people have difficulty with their behavior and their "hotness."
"Insane" was the word you used. I pointed out I had never heard or used it in reference to any animal. I posted a picture of Ari, for you. Did he look "insane" I offered a video, which belive me you do not want to see, and rightfully declined He did not "go" insane. That is a patch, and let it go at that please. Enviornment of which handling/understanding is part of, is the only factor guiding an animals behavior.
You mention Rewati a pure bred Bengal as being crosseyed. Tony was not yet he sired crosseyes, even occasionally on normal non carrier gold females. You are on the right track. As I suggested to you, go to the Sioux Falls siblings, and back track. It is a hard tiring journey, and I quoted wrong on the Beyond Reason show in 1977, as that is what I was told. Just like you were told the word "insane." I took the "journey" with a Professor from the University of San Antonio, and believe me it takes some research. When you get to the end you will learn how many "different lines" there actually are not.
Wade Burck; 29 March, 2008 11:38
Anonymous said...: Paul,
A number of months ago my sister emailed me and asked when did Frosty maul you? I said he didn't. She said, it is on Wikopedia that he did. Never thought much of it.
I just looked a Wikapedia and thats what it states. FYI. I was never mauled by Frosty. I was gashed on the jaw by a gold tiger named Sultan stopping a fight between he and Frosty in 1978. Tony severely mauled a German trainer, in the winter of 1977 while I was in Florida, during a "contract dispute", named Horst Merkel. He also severely mauled a British trainer named Marcel Peters in 1982 while I was in Massachusetts, during a "contract dispute." Those are the only "trainer" maulings that have occured at Hawthorn.
It also states the births at the Baltimore County fair. It states 2 white and one gold sold to Ringling. It states one died Maharani, but no mentionion of the other two. I only recall Maharai, who Gunther had for a short time, and yes she did die, relatively young. I don't recall another white one.
Regards,
Wade Burck
wburck3@aol.com; 29 March, 2008 12:29
Anonymous said...: Jim A.
I am sorry I didn't see your response on the white tigers subject. You stated that there was no reference to Tony, an that is correct. In the early day's the zoological field took great effort's to distance themselves for the circus. I am sure you recall those day's? I may be wrong, but I think the Tony/Circus connection first started being acknowledged after the Dan Laughlin/white tiger trial in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, when Ed Maruska was called to testify on the "monetary value" of a white tiger. He was one of the few who had a precedent value, having sold a number to Sigfried and Roy.
Best wishes,
Wade Burck

P. S. I have a April 13, 1937 USDA weather report for St. Louis and surrounding area, which was in the possession of somebody named R. M. Perkins from the St. Louis Zoo. Have you ever heard of him, and what will you trade for it?; 29 March, 2008 14:05
Anonymous said...: Hi Wade!

The white lions that Bob Cline mentioned were FIV positive, not HIV positive. They were Joany, Jespa, and Jady, and they have no descendants in this country. They were from the Pretoria line. It is not uncommon for panthera leo krugeri to be FIV positive, but they don't develop full-blown AIDS like humans with HIV. The white lions at the Philadelphia Zoo, Cincinnati Zoo, and the Toledo Zoo are all from the Johannesburg (Jo'burg) line. Those at Toledo are the great-grandchildren of the heterozygous male at Philadelphia and one of the white females there. The Pretoria line and the Jo'burg line do not yet have common offspring in this country.

Mary Ann; 29 March, 2008 16:27
Anonymous said...: Hi Wade!

The white lions that Bob Cline mentioned were FIV positive, not HIV positive. They were Joany, Jespa, and Jady, and they have no descendants in this country. They were from the Pretoria line. It is not uncommon for panthera leo krugeri to be FIV positive, but they don't develop full-blown AIDS like humans with HIV. The white lions at the Philadelphia Zoo, Cincinnati Zoo, and the Toledo Zoo are all from the Johannesburg (Jo'burg) line. Those at Toledo are the great-grandchildren of the heterozygous male at Philadelphia and one of the white females there. The Pretoria line and the Jo'burg line do not yet have common offspring in this country.

Mary Ann; 29 March, 2008 16:27
Anonymous said...: Hi Wade!

Are you still a trainer for Hawthorn? Do they have any descendants of the Tony - Ari - Ban-Siry - Kabul line? What magnificent animals! My interest in them was ignited when I saw Mohini and her family at the National Zoo in 1970. It was rekindled a quarter century later when I saw my first Siegfried and Roy show. My husband and I have seen many of Mohini's great-grandchildren (now dead), great-great-grandchildren (some dead, others now senior citizens), and have been fortunate to see only a very few beyond that. It is truly one of the things we live for.

Sincerely,
Mary Ann; 29 March, 2008 16:42
Anonymous said...: Mary Ann,
I will suggest that anybody with a white tiger, tabby tiger, all white tiger etc. etc. has blood of Tony represented. Unless they have documentation tracing only to Mohan on both sides of the pedigree, and not passing through Sioux Falls Siblings. Others will suggest that is not the case.
There was never any "Kabul" line as he had major "issues" and was castrated as a yearling.
If you are familiar with the SPORTS ILLUSTRATED article that Paul mentions there is a picture of Ban Seri in there. He is the tiger that is laying beside me on the beach, in front of the No Dogs Allowed sign, which was an attempt at levity. When Paul met William Voss in Montreal he would have met Ban Seri. That is the only picture I have of Ban Seri, with the exception of a 3 month old baby picture. I don't want to talk about him any more and I will be grateful if you remember him. Yes, I train tigers for Hawthorn. I left in 1991, when I returned to Ringling. I returned to Hawthorn in 2002. The Hawthorn facility was built in 1977, not in the 90's as the public often assumes.
Regards, Wade Burck; 29 March, 2008 18:01
Anonymous said...: Mary Ann,
Please contact me personally at wburck3@aol if you have any additional questions? I will look forward to hearing from you.
Best wishes,
Wade Burck; 29 March, 2008 20:35
Anonymous said...: W. Gardner Burck,

re: R. Marlin Perkins memorabilia

Your item would be from a time just before Mr. Perkins left to become the Director of the Buffalo, NY Zoo. Thanks for the trade offer but long ago I realized I'm a poor curator of historical items. I'm not that organized and now in FL have even less storage room. I've a few items, e.g., a personalily signed copy of Mr. Perkins autobiography and a copy of the TIME magazine with him on the cover. What I have that I can't even leave my kids are thousands of memories of observing and working for my childhood idol. He was quite guy who I learn to appreciate even more after he was gone.

Mr. Perkins was from an era when zoo people often knew and dealt with circus people. He was supportive of the St. Louis Zoo's animal shows, even wanted to add a bird show. He was a showman in his own way.; 29 March, 2008 21:39
Anonymous said...: There's a good story I remember from Perkins first association with the Buffalo Zoo in Delaware Park. He was, I believe, bitten by a Gaboon Viper, and Ray Ditmars rushed up to Buffalo from New York with the only antivenin available, made for neotropical pitvipers. It's unlikely that the antivenin manufactured at the Lancetia facility Ditmars and Douglas March set up for Standard Fruit in Honduras actually did much to aid Perkins -- But Dr. Ditmars liked to think that it did. In 1986 I built a new serpentarium for the production of antivenins for the University of Honduras (a facility that didn't need, as Costa Rica produces neotropical antivenins) and I thought alot about Ditmars and Perkins while we were putting that project together.; 29 March, 2008 23:54
Anonymous said...: Jim A.
A favorite "fantasy" of mine as a child living in the isolation of North Dakota was to take my horse and go on animal collecting trips safari's with Clyde, Marlin, and Roy.
When we had all the lions and tigers we needed we took them back to the zoo that Marlin built, and Clyde and I trained them while Roy watched our back with twin pearl handled revolvers. When we were done, Clyde fed the cat's while I helped Roy with the horses.
45 years later I am training animals, and collecting ancient zoo memorabilia. Go figure.
How can our children understand what kind of men those were? How may children do you suppose want to grow up to be Jack Hanna?
Best wishes,
Wade Burck; 30 March, 2008 00:00
Anonymous said...: Jim A. Did you know Jim Fowler? ........Jim Zajicek; 30 March, 2008 01:27
Anonymous said...: Ben:
Mr. Perkins was bitten by a Gaboon viper but at the St. Louis Zoo. Raymond Ditmars may have been involved, I've seen photos of Perkins, Ditmars, and STL Director Vierheller collecting snake in Southern Illinois. The Gaboon viper is still preserved at the Zoo. Long ago in my early days at STL one of the reptile keepers would break into a bally pitch, "come see the Gaboon viper that bit Marlin Perkins. The giant snake with the two inch fangs." We weren't all trying to be psuedo scientists then.

Jim Z., (Buckles Blog, where else can you run across Jims A to Z and much, much more?)
I've meet Jim Fowler on several occasions over the years and I'm pleased when he says he remembers me, that's it. Nice guy and very knowledgable about birds of prey. I know he's done some zoo design work -- was even going to do some work for Circus World I read in Bandwagon. He wasn't on the STL Zoo staff when he did Wild Kingdom.; 30 March, 2008 07:56
B.E.Trumble said...: Thanks Jim. Right snake, wrong zoo. I'm getting feeble...lol. It's hard to get bitten by a Gaboon Viper, they're highly nocturnal and fairly docile during the day. Kids in African have been known to drag them around by the tail... But when they yawn those 2" fangs are impressive! Sadly you are oh-so-right about pseudo-science (or even real science) taking some of the fun out of the zoo experience for everybody.

I believe Jim Fowler did design work for a park in North Carolina that was pretty nice.; 30 March, 2008 10:16
Anonymous said...: Ben, Jim, and all participants,
This wonderful, educational thread started with someone thinking lions were tigers. Is that pseudo-science or what? Lol
Wade Burck; 30 March, 2008 12:56
Anonymous said...: Well I do declare, this post has got to win the title of "most comments" EVER on this blog.As well as the most tiger information. It surely has been "entertaining" Wade, and very interesting for the blog. Karen Glenn; 30 March, 2008 21:17
Anonymous said...: I seem to recall that a little boy was bitten by a Gaboon viper at the National Zoo while he was stealing it. As I recall he put it in a sack and threw it over his shoulder and it bit him through the cloth or whatever it was made of. Marlin Perkins was on TV commenting on this.; 31 March, 2008 11:01
Wade G. Burck said...: Paul,
Good to hear from you. If you would, could you please contact me at wburck3@aol.com I would like to continue our white tiger discussion, as you seem to be pretty versed on the subject. I think we have just about run out of room here. Lol
Regards,
Wade Burck; 31 March, 2008 12:31
Adaline said...: I must echo how beautiful, elegant and dignified Charly Baumann's tigers were on the mirrored balls. I have never found his book entitled Tiger,Tiger. Does anyone recall the kidnapping of the tiger cubs from Miami in 1976? They were returned after being found in a hotel. Their abductor was injured by the mother when he took them from her. I'll always recall how pitifully he tried to apologize to Charly for taking them and how reserved Charly was as he listened to the fellow and then summarily dismissed him from the show. Charly refrained from completing the job on the fellow that the mother tiger had begun on his arm. The building in Hollywood wasn't completed and so there was a bit of a lag between there and Miami during which the abductor had too much time on his hands. He still had two hands when he started that caper.
Thank you, Buckles for inspiring me to get the scanner going and improve my blogging skills. Oh, I was just a showgirl in '76 with the Blue Unit.

Love to all especially, Marcella, rest in peace.; 22 April, 2008 07:11
Anonymous said...: Why do white tigers have protruding tongues or do they? I've never seen a white tiger with a protruding tongue? Does anybody still breed white tigers?; 04 November, 2008 13:31
Wade G. Burck said...: Anonymous,
I have never heard of a protruding tongue being a characteristic of a white tiger. Regardless of the color some will "protrude" their tongue momentarily when they are relaxed or resting. As will all felines and canines when they are relaxed or resting.
Wade Burck; 04 November, 2008 14:13
Anonymous said...: Thank you Wade Burck.; 07 November, 2008 12:48
Anonymous said...: To whom it may concern;
Way back when, the Baron Von Uhl did have a litter of new born cubs in Baltimore and there was at least one white one. This from an eye witness.; 08 November, 2008 23:11
Wade G. Burck said...: James C. Hall,
I thought there was 3 from Richard Reynolds newspaper account?
Wade Burck; 10 November, 2008 11:13
Anonymous said...: The year was 1976 The Baron Von Uhl was employed as many for Feld's for their fair date in Baltimore. A litter of cubs were born there and only one seen and it was white. The gal who saw them said she did not see all the cubs. She said the cubs were just being born and the Baron came out with one in hand and of course was quite excited that it was white.; 10 November, 2008 13:12
Anonymous said...: Jim A.-I am curious. Where did your daughter Kristin see white tigers which were cross-eyed and had their tongues sticking out? Were there a lot of them like that? Does anybody still breed white tigers?; 31 January, 2009 11:36
Anonymous said...: I read that there were two white tiger cubs born in the Baltimore County Fair, and one orange. One of the two white cubs is in a picture with Gunther, which was posted elsewhere on this blog.; 31 January, 2009 11:52
Anonymous said...: PS The veterinarian from the Baltimore Zoo was on hand for the births of those three cubs.; 31 January, 2009 11:54
Anonymous said...: The first cub born was the orange male. There was a white male named Baltimore County Fair by Baron Julius Von Uhl, and the white female, originally named Snowball, which went to Gunther. A litter which included four white cubs, and one orange, was born on the exact same day, in June of 1976, at the Cincinnati Zoo. This litter was fathered by Tony, the patriarch of John Cuneo's white tigers, who was bought from Baron Julius Von Uhl in Detroit in 1975. The cubs born in Baltimore and Tony shared the same two parents-Raja and Sheba-who were born at the Sioux Falls Zoo.; 02 February, 2009 10:30
Anonymous said...: Richard Reynolds newspaper article refers to the three white tiger cubs born in Stockbridge, Georgia in the Summer of 1977, not Baltimore in 1976.; 03 February, 2009 10:32
Anonymous said...: Jim A.:-I hope you may still answer my question about tigers with tongues which stuck out.; 03 February, 2009 10:53

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Sunday, February 10, 2008

No. 18- RBBB in Chicago 1943

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