Buckles Blog: More Bard #1 (From Paul Gutheil)

Sunday, March 02, 2014

More Bard #1 (From Paul Gutheil)

20 comments:

Buckles said...: No exclamation mark! Pretty cool.; 02 March, 2014 10:57
Chic Silber said...: Na he's not even breathing hard; 02 March, 2014 12:06
Ole Whitey said...: Speaking as an old billposter, I wonder how a round bill was used.

I have never seen a photo of this either on a daub or in a window. Any ideas?; 02 March, 2014 20:02
Dick Flint said...: I wonder if this isn't trimmed from a larger poster. This is from the Hertzberg collection and has been framed since the 1940s. Likely it has never been closely examined.
Dick Flint
Baltimore; 02 March, 2014 23:04
Chic Silber said...: Wasn't Hertsberg in a library

in San Antonio that shut down; 02 March, 2014 23:17
Ole Whitey said...: Dick: You're probably correct. I have seen this at the Hertzberg. Was some of that collection loaned for the Bard exhibit?

Chic: Yes. The term "In perpituity" means "Only as long as we want to." Senator Harry Hertzberg left the city of San Antonio some valuable real estate with the prevision that they keep his great collection on display.

I understand it is now boxed up.

Same thing happened years ago at the Ringling with the McManus-Young collection.

Moral of the story: Collections need to be in private hands.; 03 March, 2014 12:33
Chic Silber said...: "Private Hands" doesn't always

work either Dave as with the

"Barnes Collection" in Philly

Fighting & litigation between

the heirs of the estate & the

board of directors ended up

with the stuff getting moved

to some other organization; 03 March, 2014 13:27
Richard Reynolds said...: But what happens when the private hands are in the grave?; 03 March, 2014 13:29
4pawfan said...: City of San Antonio killed the Hertzberg by not having them use the entrance on the "River Walk", which there was a set of doors there for that purpose. Had millions of people walk past it every year. They didn't even have a sign on how to get to it. You had to go to the upper street level to find it and you had to be looking for it. p.j.; 03 March, 2014 15:11
Ole Whitey said...: No pat answer to that one.

Whenever two collectors over sixty get together one will ask the other, "What's going to happen to all this when you are gone?"

When I reach sixty I'm sure I'll be involved these discussions.; 03 March, 2014 15:16
Chic Silber said...: Unless you grabbed that golden

ring Dave you (& I) only get to

go around 1 full turn (we aint

never gonna get to 60 again); 03 March, 2014 17:00
Chic Silber said...: & the answer Dave is dumpsters; 03 March, 2014 17:03
Paul Gutheil said...: The Native Americans have it right, we do not OWN anything of this world. We are merely custodians/caretakers for the next and future generations.

Some of us do a better job of it than others.

***I would like to point out something I feel is important. So much Circusiana if you will has been lost over the years because the husband collected things Circus because he loved them. The wife had, at the least, no interest in "that Circus stuff" and in more than one case as soon as hubby went to the Big Lot, she threw everything out, not having any idea what was involved and what value either $$ or historical might be involved. Diane and I had collected a modest number of lithos for one thing; we both loved them, jointly agreeing on the purchases. She is gone and I have no one to leave our "collection" to other than my cousin who is like a brother. He and his wife enjoy going to Circuses with me, but have no idea what we have spent on or what our collection might be worth. So I have told them repeatedly, in particular, the posters are worth money. DO NOT give them away and do not accept any initial $$ offer as good.
Lastly, yes, I'm almost done, I have a dear friend/fellow Circus Fan of many years who has been collecting for many decades. His wife has no interest and is now unable to have any interest, but every time I see one of his offspring I remind them, "Be very careful with your Dad's collection, DO NOT throw anything out! Many items in it are of considerable material and/or historical value.

As I descend from the soap box I thank one and all who took the time to read this
ALL THE BEST CIRCUSWISE & OTHERWISE. "Damn everything but the Circus"; 03 March, 2014 17:06
Buckles said...: My wife and I have both decided to be cremated thus sparing our survivors the expense of shipping the remains to Oklahoma.
My route books, programs and miniature wagons might be of some value but the rest can be tossed into the bonfire as well since it will still be accessible floating around on the internet for ever and ever Amen.; 03 March, 2014 17:24
Chic Silber said...: This is turning morbid like we

were smoking bad hash or worse

Let's get back to silly stuff

To hell with the future (which

is all too likely); 03 March, 2014 18:08
4pawfan said...: Next time you are on a lot and you see someone that is interested in what is going on, go talk to them.
If they show interest, help them with their collection or point them to were they can find something or to maybe one of the groups (chs,cmb,or cfa). I haven't looked in a while, but are any of the groups (chs,cmb,cfa) listed in the recent programs along with the museums? Kind of like baseball not supporting Cooperstown if they aren't ..... p.j.; 03 March, 2014 18:33
Dick Flint said...: Hertzberg, who died in 1940, willed his collection to the San Antonio Public Library. Opened in 1942 in a 3rd floor room of the main library building, it later took over the entire building when a new main library building opened in 1968; it was largely a neglected step child. I visited the collection first in 1974 and then was part of a project in 1982 that involved me spending a couple of months there to, among else, write a new guidebook that was then published about the collection. In 2001 the City and Library decided it no longer wanted the collection and it was transferred in 2003 to the Witte Museum, originally a museum of art, science and natural history. Recently, the Witte has held circus exhibits in 2007, 2009 (plus another on the wild west), and 2012. Yes, Dave, the Witte loaned a few objects to the Bard exhibit but they couldn't locate for the Bard one of the rarest, largest and grandest posters that was always on display: a nine foot tall color poster for R. Sands in 1849. How that ever got misplaced is beyond me! (And Ole Whitey, the McManus-Young magic collection went directly to the Library of Congress where it remains and is readily accessible in their well-supervised Rare Books reading room. It was another magic collection that went to the Ringling and may have “left” when their curator went to start the Hall of Fame in the 1950s.). And further clarification for Chic re the Barnes art collection. It was given with so many restrictions that it was somewhat inaccessible to the public; the restrictions were successfully challenged and moved to a new, more accessible location, not a different museum. Collections that benefit from tax breaks (i.e., non-profit status) are granted such in order to benefit the public that gives them such breaks. And 4pawfan, it's hard to say what killed the Hertzberg but, in short, the library and City failed its stewardship, and simply having an entrance off the Riverwalk would not have done it by itself. And Richard rightly raises the best question as to what should happen to a collection: "what happens when the private hands are in the grave?" Thank goodness all those collections over the years made it to Baraboo! Even given its recent difficulties, now in the past, they are still accessible, in fact even more so now with the work of Pete Shrack getting collections online! And thanks to Howard Tibbals, that great collection that began with Harold Dunn is becoming accessible to the public. I can name numerous collections languishing in the hands of a deceased collector's family who know not what they have. Dave, you've gathered a wonderful and well-focused collection about a man you admire and is one of the circus world's greats. Will it languish, get scattered to the winds, or be kept together and available to those wanting to research and further perpetuate a legend who I was lucky to see perform in his last years before cancer took him in 1965? I write this after having spent my life in museum work, as a published historian in several areas, and as a collector (who now is giving great thought to his material given recent events!).
Dick Flint
Baltimore; 03 March, 2014 23:30
Chic Silber said...: Many thanks Dick for all that

detailed information; 03 March, 2014 23:53
John Herriott said...: I enjoy history of many sorts over the years. I guess its what appeals to people in general. Naturally having been in the circus professionally all my life whets my appetite to know more. I have not been a serious collector but just having so much info on family and related subjects have given me a very sizeable amount of "stuff" that is helter skelter here and there. Other than albums of various involvements over the years. Most of the circus history that I know has been from word of mouth plus some 70 yrs. of actually being part of it and, or being aware of what was happening. I do have an excellent memory and get bothered when some scribe or person makes declarations that I know not to be correct, but will be established as histoically correct. Some is just nitsey-bitsey but then there are other things that are important and should not be recognized as fact. A very good friend and associate who is a highuly respected authority and scribe about our circus history and his writing is chisled in stone wrote a completely erroneous reprt on a very important subject of circus history. He was quite aware of this not being correct but for personal reasons went ahead and did "sell his soul". I personally qustioned him and his reply was a monetary excuse. What a shame. So be it but my point is that all world history can be found to have similar discrepansies, so leaves us with much to be desired. We do know that much PR mAking and-or press releases are totally false in order to sell tickets, but its not hard to separate the wheat from the chaf.

I have the gratest respect for all of nthese sincere circus historians. Dick Flint, Pfenings and a number of others, plus days gone by of Sturtavant, Conover,etc. who have made this subject so gratifying for us. Is it important? I guess for us as interested parties. I really enjoy Buckles blog, dick dykes, jim peterson and now facebook at various times. A number of devoted friends of the circus like Dave Orr, Jimmy Cole and his wonderful camera have made for very pleasant moments. But as a grumpy old man I enjoy calling it the way it is and was.

I have a fixation about very important and successful individuals in this world and like to Google them and find a bio on what makes them tick over and above the general persons. So in retirement its fun to spend time on these and a few other subjects.I do have great interest in the two World wars plus the Civil War and now realize that these were very important in that there had to be a winner, whereas other confliks never really settled the subject. This new confrontation is very bothering to me as it can have serious repercussions. thanks from yours truly johnny; 04 March, 2014 10:28
bob good said...: Bob Good

Speaking of collections Eggroll and I have just returned from the Mercer Museum in Doylestown, Pa. where the Tegge exhibit is on display. Buckles your video interview is great and so is the pic of Mary Ruth and the kids on Mills plus a host of other material. If you are in the Philly area it is worth a trip.

Bob Good; 04 March, 2014 17:48

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