Sunday, July 22, 2007

Zoo Amsterdam #3

Scannen0007, originally uploaded by bucklesw1.


Anonymous said...

Buckles, this bull sure reminds me of Buke (smallish ears, short, thick tusks). Is Buke his father, and how long has he been in Amsterdam? Thanks Wade Burck

Buckles said...

As Mr. von Gilsa says, he was born up at Charlie's place, that's all I know. I personally never kept records on elephant births.
They never interested me until they got big enough to fetch.

Anonymous said...

Bravo Buckles, Earler this year, in reference to new born white tigers, I told someone, "they don't interest me much until they are 2 years old". Hearing the story retold many times later, it's been changed to the best thing you could do is put all baby animals in a bag, and throw them in the river. Go figure. Wade Burck

Anonymous said...

His father is Tusko (pres. Portland) and he left Rockton 99, and came over Hannover Zoo to Amsterdam in September 2003.

Dan Koehl

Bob Cline said...

The father, TUSKO, is a Gary & Kari Johnson owned elephant currently on Breeding loan at the Oregon Zoo in Portland, Oregon. Give the Johnsons a lot of credit, even if you may not be familiar with their outstanding dedication and hard work, they have had remarkable success with the breeding of Asian elephants in addition to making a living and addressing the Legislative curveballs all at once.

GaryHill said...

Capt, this Tusko was Sobik from Sanford Zoo you broke out?

Buckles said...

Might be. Rex had a "Tusko" with the Vargas Show 1979-82.
Does Sanford to Vargas to Johnson fit that time frame?

Bob Cline said...

Gary and Buckles,
Yes, he is one and the same.

Anonymous said...

The baby on the picture is not Sired by Nikolai though, the cow came pregnant from Rotterdam Zoo, where she was sired by Alexander.

Where in Tusko/Sobik´s history does Sanford Zoo come in?

The history Ive understood it untilnow is:

Portland Oregon Zoo 2005-06-20
from Gary Johnson

Gary Johnson 2003-02-01
from Fresno Chaffee Zool Gardens

Fresno Chaffee Zool Gardens 1995-04-17 Gary Johnson

Gary Johnson 1992-10-13
from African Lion Safari, Rockton

African Lion Safari, Rockton 1987-02-02 from Rex Williams

Rex Williams 1982-00-00 from Circus Vargas

Circus Vargas 1979-00-00 from Rex Williams

GaryHill said...

When I left the Blue Show, I went back to Fla and had the opportunity to work with him at the Sanford Zoo. He was beating everyone up at the zoo. They had him in a pen with a hippo, no wonder he was pissed off! Buckles orginally broke him at CW in 74 or 75? He was fat and lazy and no one there had a clue how to get around him. He was chained on a long run where he could get shade and water and they just through the feed over the fence, then while he ate they quickly cleaned up until he would chase them out. The hippo always hit the water as soon as you got in the pen. I think the Capt has some pictures of him I send last year?

GaryHill said...

My appoligies, that was 1978.

Anonymous said...

Wade Burck is actually correct, Nickolai's father was Buke offically. His mother, Kitty is still at Charlie Gray's place. Buke as you all know is dead. 9-25-03 was when Nickolai was transferred to Amsterdam. I would think Tusko would be too young to sire a calf even though he was at Rockton at the same time the mentioned bull was concieved. But things have happened before.

Anonymous said...

Really? This was interesting.

According to NORTH AMERICAN REGIONAL STUDBOOK – ASIAN ELEPHANT (pdf) Tusko is the father.

Nikolai was born 1993-05-02.
Buke was 24 then, Tusko was 22.

Did both bulls have access to the females?

I guess noone did DNA-test then, like they do today, after the birth of AI babies, in order to know whos the father, when they are are mixing semen from different bulls during artificial insemination?

I find Wades reflection very interesting, can it be confirmed that Buke was actually father?

Cause in that case the studbook is wrong?

Anonymous said...

Dan - that is interesting... I looked at other source and my personal records. Everybody I had talked to said it is Buke. Yes, they need DNA testing to be sure... but Im pretty sure it is Buke because he looks more like Buke than Tusko. the AZA stud book does report Tusko as the sire... really contradicating each other does it?!

Elephant pologamy at its best! Yes they can do DNA with the bull at Amsterdam with Tusko and one of Buke's offspring. I dont know if they have stored Buke's blood or not.

I cant answer your other question, but it is a very good one. I do not think Nikolai was from AI though since it is still relatively new.

Anonymous said...

In 1981 when I was on Circus Vargas with Rex and Tusko, I remember Tusko being pretty distinctive looking. Short and chunky, with a big square looking head, short thick tusks. I personally never cared for that look. Taller, smaller headed males, with lot's of roll's under their chin have appealed to me more. Kinda like the difference between Russian, Polish, Spanish, Egyptian, and Domestic Arabian Horses. Wade Burck

Anonymous said...

FYI, I just talked to a Rex Williams elephant expert, who is currently working at a museum, so he must know his stuff. He confirmed for me my rememberance's of Tusko, and how he looked. This has become interesting. Anybody have any fresh info to share. Wade Burck
P.S. Also talked to elephant historian and helper, Jimmy Hall for Buke insight. He can't get past the fact that somebody said I "might be correct", so he wasn't much help. Wade Burck

klsdad said...

Re: Tusco..
Have you seen the videos on YOU TUBE - of him having a tusk drilled?? Very nice video..and others of him at the Oregon Zoo: