Buckles Blog: 2007 Gutheil Gallery #3

Friday, December 21, 2007

2007 Gutheil Gallery #3

Scan000010600, originally uploaded by bucklesw1.

The Pre Show entertainment with Ken & Nicole Blue also in Bridgeport.
This is a touchy-feely policy that has been adopted to allow the public close contact with circus animals along with a lecture on their care and maintenance.
More importantly it gives the Dewey, Birnam & Howe Concession Company an additional hour of exposure at each performance.

35 comments:

Anonymous said...: Please note that this elephant represents 12 1/2% of the entire Ringling blue show herd. In the old days, just a few years ago, this elephant would be about 5% of the herd.

All percentages are approximate for you picky-picky people.

In addition--Ringling tickets are now 900% higher than 30 years ago.

The moral: Feld keeps INCOME going UP while cutting DOWN the product.

---Arthur Anderson from cell block 86; 21 December, 2007 07:43
Anonymous said...: I see that the "Photographer to the Circus Stars", Mr. Paul Gutheil has soared into the technology age by attaching his photo credit by way of computer graphics.

For years we welcomed Paul's generosity with complimentary photos that carried on the back the rubber stamp inscription: Photos by Paul Gutheil, Glen Rock, New Jersey.

So another circus legend has gone by the wayside: Paul's rubber stamp.

Paul, as fast as you can, call Baraboo and tell them that you are sending your rubber stamp for their collection.; 21 December, 2007 08:23
Anonymous said...: The floor has all the class of a Wal-Mart parking lot.; 21 December, 2007 08:31
Anonymous said...: Hah - is there any association of this Group with the ole' ;
" Findem , Ketchum & Cheatem "
of the Middle Late 70s .; 21 December, 2007 09:18
Monty said...: Well said Mr. Anderson. I’m glad to hear that there are those who think as I do about all of the downsizing. I attended Ringling Gold about a year ago in Roanoke and felt that this could NOT possibly be a show with the Ringling name attached to it. I then wrote a review for the Sideshow World Yahoo Group expressing my frustration. However Ward Hall chastised me for being critical. I went on to visit both of the larger units in Greensboro and Charleston and found that their herds were half of what I had seen in previous years. As you said, half the show and double the ticket price not to mention $15.00 floss.; 21 December, 2007 09:20
Anonymous said...: Excuse me! Wouldn't that concession department more properly be named "Dewey, Burnem, DAILY, & Howe"? Please advise! I see "Cheatum" must have retired!
Pete, the Baraboobian!; 21 December, 2007 09:24
Anonymous said...: Interesting to note that three of those four names were REAL circus titles: Bill Griffith's Birnam Bros., Ben Davenport's Daily Bros., and the oft-used Howes going back to Seth B. in the 1840s and more recently with Jerry Mugivan in the 1920s.
Dick Flint
Baltimore; 21 December, 2007 10:32
Anonymous said...: Dick: I think Howe was used more recently than Mugivan. There was a Howe's Hippodrome out one year- possibly the last gasp of Biller Bros?; 21 December, 2007 19:03
Anonymous said...: This is definetly not a red one! Maybe this was just after opening?Bob Kitto; 21 December, 2007 19:06
Casey McCoy Cainan said...: Funny the W.C.F. quotes on the other post, cause first thing this morning, this photo brought to mind one of my personal favorites. "Business is an establishment that gives you the legal, even though unethical, right to screw the naive--right, left, and in the middle."; 21 December, 2007 21:37
Anonymous said...: On Ringling, no food concessions can be sold on the arena floor and other vendors are very limited as to access to the floor for any selling during the pre-show (i.e., you can’t go into the crowd but must stay on the perimeter selling toward the seats). Consequently, it means there is LESS opportunity to sell during the meet-and-greet. I believe doors was always one hour before showtime, even in the era before the pre-show. Most butchers do little business for the 45 minutes after doors open since the seats are sparsely populated because the smart ticket buyers are on the floor until the end of the meet-and-greet 15 minutes before showtime. I know that some performers who are blog contributors dislike the concept but having traveled with the red and blue units for nearly ten weeks on both coasts this year as an attentive observer, I believe that the up-close experience builds great goodwill and yields long term PR gains. Also, while ticket and concession prices will vary according to markets, floss was never as high as $15 and I was oftentimes in the seats with a pole of 40 floss. I’m a New England-born tight-fisted Yankee with my own opinions about prices but say what you think, the stuff can sell. During a fifteen minute intermission, there were a couple of times I went back for more floss and I’m neither an experienced butcher nor quite as agile in the seats as I might have been when I was 40 years younger! One of my more effective pitches as I climbed the seats pertained to those tall hats that come with the floss: “Look about you, everyone’s wearing them, they’re the fashion statement of the season.” It got smiles and it then got sales. As expensive as the food may seem to be, it always comes with a durable take-home souvenir--even a moistened towelette packet for cleaning the kids and I got LOTS of comments of how thoughtful that item was. And as my son (who also spent a few weeks working concessions and riding the train with me) just commented as I write this, circus tickets are much cheaper than big-name concerts or touring Broadway shows.

Last spring I was involved on this blog in a lengthy exchange regarding program prices between now and the 1903 period when the Barnum show first sold programs. Economic historians have several ways to calculate inflation but the result was that there has not been a significant increase beyond inflation for souvenirs. As for me, I remember nickel candy bars that had more ounces of chocolate than the bars sold today for fifteen times that!

Finally, all elephant herds seem to be depleted. Ringling is down but so, too, are the herds we came to regularly expect on Cole and Carson & Barnes. And Big Apple no longer has the elephant act we once counted on. Lots of specific reasons but we generally know why.
Dick Flint
Baltimore; 21 December, 2007 23:42
Buckles said...: Richard- My wife and I are taking the grandkids to the Blue Show opening as guests in a luxury box yet despite your words of comfort I am again prepared to float a loan at my bank to absorb concession expenses.; 22 December, 2007 00:14
Anonymous said...: Mr. Flint has missed his calling...instead of working seats with floss he should have been in the PR office with ballyhoo.; 22 December, 2007 10:22
Anonymous said...: Buckles: When does Blue show open.
Anxiously await your comments and to know particularly how Jenny, AL and Joyce are doing.

Paul G.; 22 December, 2007 10:50
Anonymous said...: Using Mr. Flint's theory that the price of Ringling's concessions and tickets are the same as PT Barnum's with inflation factored in, then one can only conclude that Mr. Barnum's concessions were overpriced, too.

With the exception of the recent Disney shows on Broadway, Lion King, Mary Poppins and the soon to arrive Little Mermaid, Broadway shows are geared toward adults.

Since New York City is the financial capital of the world and the home to many mult-national corporation, most of the show tickets are written off as a business expense.

Yes, there is the "Bridge and Tunnel" crowd and the ladies who do the matinees on Wednesday, but for the most part a Broadway ticket is a business expense.

It is totally preposterous to compare Ringling with Broadway shows.

Floss and the hat together cost $1.50, maybe, and to be sold for $12.00. $10.50 gross profit is a very healthy margin.

Kenneth Feld didn't become one of the richest men on the Forbes list by selling $3.00 floss.

Unlike you, who were trailing the Ringling show for shits and giggle, I was an independent contractor for Sells-Floto. Some days I had a good day and some days I barely had enough money for dinner at the pie car.

It is a little unfair working for
3 1/2 percent when circus lights are $18.00.

The pay off was the train---sharing two shows with 23 other pople, most of whom are slobs.; 22 December, 2007 17:10
Anonymous said...: Give Dick Flint credit for using his real name when he shares his opinion. Any one who knows his background as a circus historian and his extensive collection of oral histories with oldtimers knows Dick is not slinging lead from the hip just to get attention. Thank you, Dick, for sharing your photos and your knowledge on Buckles blog.

Give credit where credit is due, also, to the Feld organization for continuing the pre-show activities, which serve two purposes: 1. To provide youngsters of all ages the see circus people and animals close up and personal, especially the animals (and Lord knows the circus needs all the animal supporters it can get), and 2. To get the fans into their season so the show can start reasonably on time--just ask the folks at Cole Bros and Carson & Barnes how often they have to delay the opening whistle for up to 20 minutes because of late-comers.

And yes, the pre-show does provide more opportunities for vendors to sell their wares to people who arrive early to see the pre-show.

Now, would you please hold my $12 cotton candy, my $10 snow-cone cup and my $15 program while I let this guy drape a snake around my neck for an $8 photo op? And please hurry, because my whole family wants to ride an elephant.

Best wishes to all for a blogging grand New Year.

Lane Talburt; 22 December, 2007 22:12
Anonymous said...: Can't help but put in my two cents worth. Ringling is not what it was but it is still the only exposure to circus many people have. It still has animals thus is still a circus not something else stealing our name.
I can afford to see Ringling (under $20 for decent seats) I will again not be able to see Solei's new not-a-circus (looks like some good acts though) as $50 is the cheapest seat with $5 special senior and childrens discount for a few shows.

I just want floss, I don't want a hat at any price.
Mark Horton; 23 December, 2007 03:44
Anonymous said...: Ringling eliminated the ring curbs to eliminate the lawsuits from children and adults tripping over/falling off those big round things on the floor.

The Ringlings, the Ringling-Norths and Irvin Feld didn't need goodwill and positive public sentiment by having one elephant, a bunch of South American show girls and a band of acrobats in the ALL ACCESS preshow waste of time.

Those gentlemen built goodwill and positive public sentiment by producing a SPECTACULAR 3 RING CIRCUS.

Since the above is the TRUTH, I am not signing my name because my name doesn't matter.; 23 December, 2007 09:41
Casey McCoy Cainan said...: Sells Floto Anomyni,

I can see why you are upset. Mr. Flint is not the bad guy here. As far as I can tell, he keeps his comments to a factual and historical basis. You should not be upset with him, because you made a bad deal to be a butcher.(3.5% wow, what were you thinking?) However, the product is selling at such a high price, your deal wasn't as bad as it sounds, 3.5% of $18.00 is .63 cents for you. On some shows you would maybe get, 10% or ok lets say 20% (hope you have CDL and like Chinese) 20% of $3 floss is .60 cents. Your argument against the train, makes me assume you haven't lived in a mudshow bunk house. I am in no way giving support to RBBB, they don't need mine, however, Mr. Flints opinion, carries a good bit-o-weight, as I have found it to be chalk-full-o-facts. The shits and giggles remark, tells me you are very young, or an old and disgruntled 4th generation kinker that feels slighted by the business cause you can't bounce on your head anymore. The shits and giggles, are about the only reason to play circus now days.

Thank Mr Flint, for you 2 cents or 3.5%'s worth. And for signing your very own name to it.; 23 December, 2007 10:26
Anonymous said...: First time I saw the preshow I thought that it was a pretty good idea, because the kids obviously love it, and it's important that kids should love circus. In this age of interactive children's museuam, hands-on zooLABS, etc., it's a natural fit. But if you're an adult without kids in tow, seeing it once or twice is probably enough.; 23 December, 2007 10:58
Anonymous said...: Why is it that circus fans are the voice of the industry ?
The people like me who try to squeeze out a living with the circus our opinion doesnt matter.

Ringling offering an inferior show is not going to make circus lovers out of the public because it is the only circus they see.

Thats like stating if people eat a Big Mac at McDonalds that they are going to become lovers of Filet Mignon.

History is written by Historians; Memoirs are written by people who experienced it firsthand. Give me a memoir over a biased history book.

ANd note on the top of the page, this blog is about DISCUSSION.; 23 December, 2007 11:01
Buckles said...: The animal part of the pre-show entertainment makes sense in showing an opposing view against the AR rantings but the poor bastard trying to do a roly-boly act amid a milling hoard of oblivious housewives talking about out their operations while their kids strike each other with whirly lights is deplorable.; 23 December, 2007 11:30
Casey McCoy Cainan said...: Actually Anonymous,
Your opinion carries little weight, cause it is anonymous. You don't believe in your convictions, enough to sign them. History, is the bunch of lies about something, that the most people agree on. That is either a quote from Napoleon or Wade Burck. If you look close there are a lot of industry voices here, that, are just trying to make a living at this as well. Some of these said, professionals, have the scrote to put their name on their critiques. I have not seen a Feld production, in over 6 years, so I cannot comment on the quality or lack there of. I must however put more stock in a revue by Mr. Flint, an avid historian, and fan of show biz, then a disgruntled employee, with no name. Surely, you can see why. As far as fillet mignon, well I think that is mostly gone now. It's going to have to be Whoppers and microwave burritos. Keep writing the memoirs, I wish you the best. I haven't ever seen an anonymous autobiography, on the times best seller list... but I guess it could happen; 23 December, 2007 11:44
Anonymous said...: In further defense of the indefensible... (And Casey makes a great point on the vendor percentages)...Every owner since Aaron Turner, or even earlier has tried to figure out how to squeeze a little more money out of the show. Some more honestly than others. There's nothing wrong with finding a way to add an hour of vending time to the process. It doesn't differ all that much from the "after shows" of an earlier in era in that respect. Circus-goers are certainly entitled to the best possible show any given producer can put together for their buck, and producers that don't keep them happy in that respect aren't remembered kindly or keep a pocket full of titles handy. Producers are entitled to turn a profit. RBBB plays the same cities year after year, and sometimes they drop the ball badly, but generally the audience keeps coming back. In strictly economic terms, the market responds to consumers. When the audience said, "Hay, where are the cats?" the cats came back. In an age when too many zoos have no elephants at all, any elephants seems like an improvement. That doesn't mean that mediocrity is okay but rather that success isn't predicated on pleasing everybody. Casey's right too in that the anonymous vendor has clearly never enjoyed the pleasures of sleeping in the cab of his truck for weeks on end. Elsewise the train might seem a luxury.; 23 December, 2007 11:48
Anonymous said...: Sells Floto Alumnus and/or Anonymous:

OK, so you don't want to post your name. You're absolutely correct that this blog is based on DISCUSSION. But that doesn't mean you need to denigrate some one else, or deny him the right to state the facts as HE sees them.

I am a fan. My dad took me to circuses when I was a kid, probably like your dad took you. I didn't choose to run away and join the circus. Instead, I became a writer. What I really enjoy is flitting from one lot or arena to the next, documenting the history of the modern American circus through video interviews with circus people at all levels of the business. At the recent Circus Historical Society meeting, I was fortunate to get Archie Chan--and since you were with Sells-Floto, you may have known Archie--to sit down with me for two hours of jackpotting on his experiences as a drummer in circus bands and as a concessionaire in virtually all Feld units. I've just written a lengthy account of some of his exploits which I hope will be published in a future edition of Bandwagon. I also interviewed Pat Long, another ex-Sells-Floto vendor, at the same time, and I'm also writing account on her. Stories like Archie's, and Pat's--and yours--need to be told.

That's what Dick Flint has done through his extensive oral histories with circus folks for the Smithsonian, where they'll be available for generations of researchers to come. And that's what Paul Guthiel and many other fan-photographers have done to document American circus life. We share our stories and our photos not for money and not for self-aggrandizement, but because we genuinely like circus and the people who have dedicated their lives and talents (and many have been woefully underpaid) to bringing quality entertainment beyond Broadway. Many of us who are fans are not the voice of the circus; we're simply trying to document the experiences of those who have been with it.

I can't begin to tell you what a pleasure it has been to interview people like Buckles, Charlie Smith, Pete and Norma Davenport Cristiani, Johnny Peers, Josephine and Joe Silverlake (they've gone on to the Big Lot now), Dolly and Lou Ann Jacobs, King Charles Weathersby, Manuel "Junior" Ruffin, Ben Trumble (and yes, Ben, you still owe me the stories I sent you for correction last year--ha) and many others.

I mean no disrespect, Sells Floto Alumnus and/or Anonymous. I'm well aware of the role that politics and back-stabbing plays in concessions and in the backyard. I'm aware of the fact that working in or around a circus is not the best way to retire rich. I've heard many stories--good and bad--about circus owners and producers past and present. They may not be perfect, but they are the ones who use their money--and persuade other to cough up their funds--to start and keep the American circus alive.

Thank you, Sells Floto Alumnus, for sharing your stories. And if you're so inclined, I'd like to get to know you. My e-mail is talburtcom1@sbcglobal.net
Assuming you live in the New York area (I live near Bridgeport, CT), maybe we can meet for coffee on Broadway.

Best wishes,

Lane Talburt; 23 December, 2007 12:29
Casey McCoy Cainan said...: Mr. Talburt,
I know some people truly appreciate, the lengths you and many others go through, to promote the industry, and history of the American Circus. I applaud all of you.If and when I am ever near NYC, or Bridgeport, I would like to spring for coffee, and maybe even a dough nut or two. I still have some of the 5% I got as a butcher 20 yrs ago working for Mike Rice, on Franzen Bros. Geesh, all items were a dollar, and the 17 winos I shared the sleeper shower with, could never be described as just slobs.; 23 December, 2007 13:09
Anonymous said...: 5% on $1 concessions sound familiar. That's about what my Dad paid us on 50 cent pit show admissions. It's kind of funny because my 14 year is very anxious that I find circus work next year so that he can leave school in March and "get a job." I think when he was around eight Barbara Byrd told him that someday when he was a little older he could earn twenty-five dollars a week on a circus, so it's been one of those "life list" goals ever since. His older brother worked carnival dates last summer and held out for a whole lot more, insisting that he needed beer money. Somehow I suspect that back at college he has more money in the bank than I do.; 23 December, 2007 15:39
Anonymous said...: In my annonymous (and therefore probably irrelevant opinion) if a post is not slanderous, I don't see what difference posting a name makes if the poster is unlikely to be known by any other poster on the board. I occasionally post a question or comment on a picture withour posting my name, because A. who the heck knows me?, and B. How would including my name change my comment?
A lot of you guys know each other in real life. Myself, I am just a fan/ex-performer wannabe who enjoys looking at cool circus pictures.; 23 December, 2007 23:20
Anonymous said...: For the record this is only the SECOND comment I'm making here.

I made my point.

Fans are a fickle flock who's feathers are SO EASILY ruffled.; 24 December, 2007 07:36
Buckles said...: "Fickle Flock", that even better than
than "The Fickle Finger of Fate!"; 24 December, 2007 07:51
Casey McCoy Cainan said...: Sell-Anonymi,

Let me make sure I got your point. You don't like Kenneth Feld, and you are mad cause he didn't give you bigger slice of what you considered over priced concessions, while forcing you to live on a train with some sloppy people, all the while he is raking it in from business men, thinking they are going to see Aida?

So your experience was not pleasant. Enjoy the winter. It will be time to go soon enough. Remember, if your first season you don't succeed, try again, if that doesn't work, give it up, no need in being a damn fool about it.; 24 December, 2007 08:23
Anonymous said...: There are many circus people here on the blog. Some are former or current employees of Ringling Bros.

I, Thank God, am a "former".

We have many family members and friends with Ringling and a comment that is less than positive could be financial suicide.

Luckily, I do not have ANY connections with "The Vatican" (Ringling) a place where no sins are ever committed.

When the "junior producers" took over...a friend of mine and long time employee saw his daily emails go from about 6 to 100. It took him all morning to answer his emails cause you will catch holy hell if your emails go unanswered.

By the time he actually got to work and became so far backlogged his stress level became unbearable.

He left.

Another seasoned and devoted employee leaving the lot.

At this rate in another few years the longest tenured employee with Ringling Bros. will have 6 weeks experience.

Anonymous, and proud of it.; 24 December, 2007 08:24
Anonymous said...: It seems that some cat trainers have a big stake in not being anonymous, as there sure is a lot of strong rhetoric assigned to signatures. As a semi-retired cat trainer myself I must say that I do understand some contributors need or desire for anonymity. So I hope ya'll keep on bloggin' and don't get intimidated by a couple of cat trainers who continue beating on their own chests by trying to belittle others.
And to said cat trainers ; point taken guys,time to move on; 25 December, 2007 08:54
Buckles said...: To the uninformed "semi retirement" means sleeping in the front of the cat truck.; 25 December, 2007 09:01
Casey McCoy Cainan said...: Larry,
Merry Christmas!!

Anonymously...; 25 December, 2007 09:25

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Friday, December 21, 2007

2007 Gutheil Gallery #3

35 comments:

Kids